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MiguelKomornick

Hvx? Hpx? Xtreme? Dslr? Need Input

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So I'll apologize in advance for how many questions I have and how long winded this post is, however I'm sure you're looking for something to do anyway if you're lurking.

 

But anyway, I'm stuck in a bit of pickle. I currently have an hmc150 and opteka .3x and it's been great to me over the past 5 years but I'd really like to upgrade. I was looking in the HPX/xtreme route and that's definitely the way I want to go, but I'm stuck on three cameras in the range. First off is the HPX170, which is the eldest, but most likely least expensive way to go. I would be all for it, but the next camera, the hpx250, talks about shooting to AVC-intra which could totally be a deal breaker with the extended resolution and data rate. Finally, I saw that Panasonic semi recently released a new microp2 camera, the PX270, which apparently has a new avc-intra 200 format and shoots 1080/60p, which could be another deal breaker for me. So really my main questions are:

 

- What are most guys in the industry using who have an xtreme setup? the 170 or the 250?

- Is avc-intra a major improvement over DVCproHD? Should I be drooling over it as much as I am?

- I saw people were complaining that the 250's intra is only 4:2:2, which is assume relates to file depth, but what exactly does it mean?

- Would It be an issue trying to work with people who shoot to DVCproHD if I shot intra?

 

I know many of you are going to say "get a DSLR" which is also an option but I haven't been nearly as impressed by any DSLR footage ive seen compared to HVX. I really dont know much about them though so I could be selling myself short. So my questions about these beauties are:

 

-If there is one, what is the "go to" DSLR for filmers in the industry?

-What is the "go to" fisheye for this DSLR for filmers in the industry?

-Is there a reasonably priced rig so I can zoom like I do with my hmc?

-I noticed people talking about some of them shooting "raw" what does this mean?

I've already lurked around trying to figure out what to do, but I figured I'd try to get a conversation going and really get to the bottom of this.

 

 

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4:2:2 is referring to the color depth. Most DSLR's and camcorders like your (HMC150) shoot 4:2:0 which is "shallower" color depth. This depth is needed for lots of color grading and green screen work, but if you're happy with your HMC's color depth, then 4:2:2 would be an upgrade. As far as I know, you can't get anything better than 4:2:0 for less than like $4000.

 

The only real way to make a DSLR look good is if you're shooting on a full frame sensor, like a Canon 5D mkII or III, or on something new like the Sony A7S or the micro 4/3rds sensor of the Panasonic GH4. Keep in mind though, shooting long lens with these is difficult, especially with a full frame sensor as depth of field is really shallow at larger apertures. A DSLR in your kit would be a good idea for 2nd angles, slow motion, shallow DOF shots, or for low light with smooth bokeh. In my mind, a DSLR should not be your A-camera in your kit. I tried to make it work for 2 years and finally switched to an HD camcorder and couldn't be any happier.

 

Going with a camcorder and a more modern codec is a wise choice. HPX footage is nice, but the fact that you can't shoot 1080/60p was a deal breaker for me. 720/60p converted to 30p just doesn't seem sharp enough for me online. Take the Panasonic AC90 for example, which is my new camera. AVCHD 2.0 codec (28mbps max) at 1080/60p, with a great internal OIS, dedicated zoom/iris/focus rings, 2 XLR inputs, and dual SD card slots for under $2000. I can assure you, this setup is great. Paired up with a Nikon FC-E9, this thing is seriously wide and bubbly. And since it's new, you can get a squaretrade 3 year warranty for $200, plus you're covered by panasonic's warranty. Adds some peace of mind, as skating around with a camera in a backpack isn't the most safe thing ever.

 

Just my opinion, but it's something for you to think about. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

Cheers

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4:2:2 is referring to the color depth. Most DSLR's and camcorders like your (HMC150) shoot 4:2:0 which is "shallower" color depth. This depth is needed for lots of color grading and green screen work, but if you're happy with your HMC's color depth, then 4:2:2 would be an upgrade. As far as I know, you can't get anything better than 4:2:0 for less than like $4000.

 

The only real way to make a DSLR look good is if you're shooting on a full frame sensor, like a Canon 5D mkII or III, or on something new like the Sony A7S or the micro 4/3rds sensor of the Panasonic GH4. Keep in mind though, shooting long lens with these is difficult, especially with a full frame sensor as depth of field is really shallow at larger apertures. A DSLR in your kit would be a good idea for 2nd angles, slow motion, shallow DOF shots, or for low light with smooth bokeh. In my mind, a DSLR should not be your A-camera in your kit. I tried to make it work for 2 years and finally switched to an HD camcorder and couldn't be any happier.

 

Going with a camcorder and a more modern codec is a wise choice. HPX footage is nice, but the fact that you can't shoot 1080/60p was a deal breaker for me. 720/60p converted to 30p just doesn't seem sharp enough for me online. Take the Panasonic AC90 for example, which is my new camera. AVCHD 2.0 codec (28mbps max) at 1080/60p, with a great internal OIS, dedicated zoom/iris/focus rings, 2 XLR inputs, and dual SD card slots for under $2000. I can assure you, this setup is great. Paired up with a Nikon FC-E9, this thing is seriously wide and bubbly. And since it's new, you can get a squaretrade 3 year warranty for $200, plus you're covered by panasonic's warranty. Adds some peace of mind, as skating around with a camera in a backpack isn't the most safe thing ever.

 

Just my opinion, but it's something for you to think about. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

Cheers

 

There is a wealth of misinformation here. Let me clear some of this up.

 

 

4:2:2 is referring to the color depth. Most DSLR's and camcorders like your (HMC150) shoot 4:2:0 which is "shallower" color depth. This depth is needed for lots of color grading and green screen work, but if you're happy with your HMC's color depth, then 4:2:2 would be an upgrade. As far as I know, you can't get anything better than 4:2:0 for less than like $4000.

 

4:2:2 is referring to the Chroma Sub-sampling, not the color depth. Color depth is the bit depth and the HMC's and DSLR's do both film in the same bit depth as well and that is 8 bit. Bit depth is essentially how well your camera can handle gradients. 8 Bit is fairly low and this is why you see banding in the sky with DSLR's. It has nothing to do with Depth of Field, and neither does sub sampling. Color Sub sampling is how many samples each pixel is taking. The first digit, 4, is in reference to the luminance values. The other two are in reference to the color samples the pixel is taking. In short; 4:2:0 (pretty bad), 4:2:2 (pretty good), 4:4:4 (pretty awesome), 4:4:4:4 (Best). As for the best for under $4K that's completely false, there is many options that film in 4:2:2 for cheap. The Black Magic Pocket camera shoots Prores 10 bit 4:2:2 and is on sale for $495.

 

 

The only real way to make a DSLR look good is if you're shooting on a full frame sensor, like a Canon 5D mkII or III, or on something new like the Sony A7S or the micro 4/3rds sensor of the Panasonic GH4. Keep in mind though, shooting long lens with these is difficult, especially with a full frame sensor as depth of field is really shallow at larger apertures. A DSLR in your kit would be a good idea for 2nd angles, slow motion, shallow DOF shots, or for low light with smooth bokeh. In my mind, a DSLR should not be your A-camera in your kit. I tried to make it work for 2 years and finally switched to an HD camcorder and couldn't be any happier.

 

 

DSLR footage looking good has nothing to do with sensor size, I've seen plenty of T2i footage that looks better than shitty 5D footage. Canon DSLR's have terrible dynamic range besides the 1D-C, that's one reason why DSLR's are terrible. Depth of field has nothing to do with sensor size. When you shoot full frame vs a APS-C crop you would have to be farther away for the same focal length on a APS-C therefore deepening your depth of field. Where full frame does come into play, besides field of view, is low light. Full frame is going to be better in low light due to there being more surface area that is picking up the light (basically). Also, DSLR's are not good for slow motion because most only go up to 1080/30p.

 

 

Going with a camcorder and a more modern codec is a wise choice.

 

I agree with this though.

 

As for a couple of your questions that went unanswered...

 

 

Is avc-intra a major improvement over DVCproHD? Should I be drooling over it as much as I am?

 

Yes, It's basically double the data at half the storage space but requires twice the computing power.

 

 

-I noticed people talking about some of them shooting "raw" what does this mean?

 

RAW is basically just unaltered data from the sensor, essentially just numerical data floating around not contained in any kind of codec (compressor-decompressor). So with the fact that it is uncompressed means that you aren't losing any of the data that a codec would usually be dropping due to its compressor. That's the tech side. But it basically just allows for more control over the image in post.

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if you end up going the dslr route. standard setup for a new filmer would probably be a canon t3i with rokinon 8mm fisheye. you'd also have to get a handle and the cam-caddie is a good low price handle. Later down the road if your planning on getting a mic, the rode video-mic pro is great but a little pricy. just make sure you have a computer that can handle this footage because without a decent computer your editing system won't be able to process the clips easily causing it to lag. Ive had my fair share with that haha. hope I could help

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if you end up going the dslr route. standard setup for a new filmer would probably be a canon t3i with rokinon 8mm fisheye. you'd also have to get a handle and the cam-caddie is a good low price handle. Later down the road if your planning on getting a mic, the rode video-mic pro is great but a little pricy. just make sure you have a computer that can handle this footage because without a decent computer your editing system won't be able to process the clips easily causing it to lag. Ive had my fair share with that haha. hope I could help

Look how much cash he has mayn. If he goes dslr hes gonna go on the 7D/Canon fisheye/Eazy Handle route

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Look how much cash he has mayn. If he goes dslr hes gonna go on the 7D/Canon fisheye/Eazy Handle route

this may be the case but he did ask the standard go-to dslr and to be honest I would say that would be the t3i. but if this is the case then yeah i suppose 7D setup

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this may be the case but he did ask the standard go-to dslr and to be honest I would say that would be the t3i. but if this is the case then yeah i suppose 7D setup

true that. Or a T2i if u wanna be OG.

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Or you could just by a vx1000 let me quote the skate bible :

And on the 6th day the skate gods made the filmer

But the filmer had nothing to film with

So the skate gods being ever merciful and just gave the filmers their flock

​and so in one exercise of their almighty power they created the Dv cameras

and the filmers rejoiced and lived in peace for a some time

But one day the dark one appeared and being the ultimate evil that he is he thrust his hand into

the depths of hell and pulled from the eternal flames THE DSLR

He said This films HD this is the future of filming

And through his wickedness he pulled some filmers to the dark side

But The dv filmers fought to protect the ways of the gods and to not let the dark one prevail and

so a great war was fought and is still being fought to this day

The soldiers of light and goodness against the soldiers of evil and destruction

Let not the wickedness of the DSLR tempt your heart do what the gods proclaimed as right

Be a true filmer and dont let blasphemous ideals such as 1080 p capture you

 

~Beagle 1000

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If you already have the hmc150 I don't see why you would want to

Get the hpx170 yes the hpx170 does do 4:4:2 where the hmc150 does 4:4:0 but tbh you really won't see much of a difference. IMO the hpx170 and the hmc150 are to similar to call it an upgrade moving from the hmc150

To the hpx170. Many people just get the 150 because they prefer the SD cards over the p2 workflow. But if I were you I'd either keep the hmc150 (since it's to similar to change to an HPX170) and get an xtreme for it or buy an ac130, ac160 or hpx250 and get an xtreme

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