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Goob

A Little Something I Wrote While SP Was Down

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I've come a long way since SP went dark... I've figured out how we can have have Heaven on Earth. What do you guys think?

 

AN ARGUMENT FOR A STATELESS SOCIETY

Government is by far the single most destructive force on Earth, responsible for all its major problems.

If we’re truly honest with ourselves about what it is, what becomes irrefutable is it’s a monopoly on force, using coercion as a means to its ends. No different than the mob, it’s an extortion racket that steals from people with the threat of violence known as taxes, which is inherently immoral. No matter how virtuous the cause, theft is theft. It cannot be ethically justified. And, as hopefully most of us know, government is hardly virtuous anyway.

I’m advocating for the complete abolishment of statism worldwide, replaced by a society based on the non-aggression principle.

If you haven’t heard of it, the non-aggression principle asserts the initiation of force is never legitimate; that only the use of force in self-defense is acceptable. A simpler translation which resonates with me is do no harm, but take no shit.

All human interactions should be voluntary.

It should be easy for most people of every nation and all walks of life to see the soundness of this logic. Only those who wish to unjustly impose their will on others would deny it. Whether they know it or not, such people are transgressors. No matter how great the majority, you cannot rightfully oppress a minority. Every individual should be free to govern themselves as they see fit so long as they’re not violating the rights of others.

The state fundamentally violates the non-aggression principle. Only its death can absolve its infringement upon us, and I think this simple fact alone is more than enough justification for its termination.

A total free market is the natural, harmonious flow of goods and services. Government disrupts this flow by trying to regulate the market, which inhibits competition, significantly lowering the quality and raising the prices of goods and services the market provides, including justice, equality, freedom, etc… In fact, the extent our quality of life is being held back by government is so enormous it’s incalculable. 

A free market actually regulates itself, more efficiently, through something known as “spontaneous order”; order that’s completely decentralized. It’s organic. Think natural selection. The consumers are now the authority, not the government, and the producers have to meet their demands, rather than consumers meeting the demands of the producers/government. No longer would the masses be subject to the whims of the few which undeniably is the current state of affairs and always will be, until we’re free.

COMMON REBUTTALS

But without government, who would build the roads?!
…but without slaves, who would pick the cotton? It’s absurd to think things such as roads, a vital organ of our society, can’t be built just as well, if not better, through peaceful cooperation, without the threat of kidnap, imprisonment, and even death if people don’t help pay for them. The free market will ensure the demand for premium roadways and all other necessary infrastructure is more than appropriately met.

Without government, crime will run rampant!
This notion’s also absurd. Government is crime. Organized crime. It’s the biggest criminal of them all, so putting it in charge of our lives makes no sense whatsoever… We’re letting crime run rampant right now.

That’s just never going to happen!
That’s not an argument. That’s an attitude. If a critical mass of people subscribe to this logic, government will simply cease to exist by default.

If you don’t know what a critical mass is, it’s when an innovation’s growth becomes self-sustaining/exponential, leading rapidly to its universal adoption. Examples are fire, the wheel, the lightbulb, the telephone and the internet.

All we have to do is keep sharing these ideas until enough people want a world without government, and in the blink of an eye we’ll have one. It’s really that simple, and for the first time in human history, thanks to technology like the internet, this is possible.

What would protect local communities from foreign invaders?!
Again, this would essentially be a completely peaceful society worldwide. Any attempt to initiate force within it would immediately be met with overwhelming resistance, as it would not only now be universally understood by virtually everyone that it’s in their best interest to remain free from oppression, they’d also understand it’s their personal responsibility to be vigilant and defend themselves against it.
    
We’ve been conditioned to believe it’s in our best interest to give agency over our lives to something outside ourselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. Government always leads to tyranny. Government is tyranny. It’s violence, corruption, murder, coercion, war, genocide, suffering, destruction, the list goes on. It’s cancer. History has absolutely proven this. The only solution is its orderly dissolution as soon as possible before it’s too late.

That all this isn’t common sense shows just how indoctrinated we are. We’ve been thoroughly duped. Hard as it may be, admitting’s the first step.

In my opinion if you know where to look you can already see the curve. Every year the amount of people waking up seemingly doubles. The world’s growing increasingly smaller. We’re approaching the proverbial singularity. Not a matter of if, but when, every day the elephant in the room gets bigger and bigger: government’s a total fucking scam and we’d all be infinitely better off without it meddling in our lives.

I know my argument seemingly leaves more questions than answers, but I’m confident it’s actually technically the only answer to every question, because by removing government from the equation, whatever spontaneously, voluntarily, peacefully, organically manifests in its wake, will undoubtably be the best possible solutions to the remaining challenges we'll face. They have to be. How could they not?

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the main factors to achieve this type of dream would be that first people have a near perfect level of morals where they treat each other kindly and with fairness, they would have to agree upon basic rules for living and strictly obey them. second is that people are highly organized to the point where they can take care of large societies without government intervention, utopias can happen easier on a small island situation where a tribe of a few hundred work together for a basic survival, as opposed to the complications faced by a modern fully industrialized civilization of hundreds of millions. lastly these people need to be very generous and be willing to spend their personal money and/or hours working to benefit strangers.

governments across the world are bloated, inefficient, and constantly waste the taxation they force upon their citizens. they take hundreds of times more money then whats necessary, but completely removing all regulation could only be successful in a perfect utopian society where individuals and especially businesses operate with the upmost morals. Unfortunately emotions like greed exist and makes a modern utopia an unrealistic prospect.

Leaders of businesses have large meetings where they basically conspire against the public, they get together and think of ways to gain the most money by any means necessary, im sure youre aware of the ways corporations like nestle and monsanto conduct themselves. thats with anti-monopoly, human rights and environmental protection laws in effect, with all regulations removed large companies could absolutely devastate the planet with a complete feeding frenzy over resources. its often argued that people can "vote with your dollars" and put companies that act unscrupulously out of business, but the overwhelming majority of people don't do this. with zero regulation the ability for the large companies to buy out all the smaller competitors until only the biggest remain. smart businesses operate systematically like a mindless machine made up of the collective minds of employees designed for making revenue. thats its only goal, if any course of action does not increase productivity it will not do it. these machines do not care about the health of the planet or the quality of life for human beings.

the issue of road construction also becomes an issue as well. roadways and bridges can be incredibly complicated to plan for efficient flow of traffic in a metropolitan cities, its thanks to the efforts of thousands of people many that have specialized educations that they are able to operate. inspections need to happen on old bridges, new ones must be architecturally sound, traffic lights need to be put in the correct places with the right timings. a community funded effort to pay people to do this and make sure the people hired are qualified to do what they payed to would take an incredible amount of organization on the part of the common people if no ones in charge making sure everything happens as it should. you argue that the free market would demand the continued use of the road first world country are accustomed to, but who will pay for them? will everyone pitch in? without taxes you cant force people to help out, low income people may not want to pay if they cant afford to, but the rich may not just as well if they feel they shouldnt be the ones who have to pay for everything. if you had the money to fund most of the cost a needed local road in your town would you also be willing to pay for its continued maintenance? other people may want to use your personal road, will you charge them to use it in order to supplement the extra wear and tear caused by their vehicles? without qualifications to become a contractor in place by the government how would you ensure the people you pay to build it and maintain it dont do an incompetent job and give you a street that crumbles apart in a matter of months after they take your payment? how can you attempt the get your money back by suing the people that ripped you off and gave you unusable roadway if no one is paying for the court system to function? the communities of these towns and cities will require an astronomical level of self organization to achieve the same functionality we currently have.

i agree the way police and military frequently abuse their power to lock people away it effort make sure people pay taxes can be compared to a massive organized crime syndicate. on the other hand in the lack of any large scale policing a new type of massive organized crime syndicate could happen. if a mafia or gang grows larger then the communities ability to have an organized effort to protect itself from crime it could over take an entire town if they slowly killed off all opposition. this mob/gang town could travel to the neighboring towns and eventually cities with full scale attacks where tens or hundreds of thousands of people with weapons plan out attacks to kill off everyone who doesnt escape or capture and fully enslave their victims. they could take over the resources and land until entire states or countries are under their rule. it really wouldnt be much different then the origins of many of today's modern civilizations developed, but the laws the ruling gangs/mafias impose could potentially be much more barbaric then the ones we have now.

access to education becomes an issue, the current system is bloated and inefficient, but remove government funding of public schools completely and people who lack the ability to home school or the extra income to pay for private tutors lose access to decent education for their children. its easy to see the current education gap between the rich and poor areas of the world, but it would widen to extreme levels. even in the age of the internet being widely available most people would rather use it for entertainment over learning. parents will have to be more diligent then ever to keep their kids at the current average level of intelligence. its inevitable that many would not make it a top priority the rate of illiteracy could potentially rise drastically.

if all people could simultaneously cast aside their personal desires, see beyond themselves and cooperating in harmony towards a unified effort for a better utopian world, quality of life could vastly improve for all people. but the current state of humanity lacks the coordination and selflessness required to do so. people are highly involved with their personal lifes, most have jobs/school, family/friends/pets, hobbies, entertainment, stress, to distract them from sitting down and planning a bright new future for the planet. its great that people want the world to be a better place for everyone and some even are proactive and take the small steps necessary to the fight the good fight. by doing things like gathering together and changing laws, helping the less fortunate, not screwing one another over when presented with the opportunity to. even if all government somehow disappeared over night, we would still have an abundance of bad people and even decent people who are susceptible to corruption when they have a opportunity for personal gain. the survival instant humans are programmed with that initially told them to get the most food they could get their hands on, now tells them to acquire the most wealth they can gain. people must earn a decent living to attract a mate, they must save for retirement so they can live longer and more comfortably as they age. people are largely unwilling to share their acquired wealth with others, no one would pay their taxes if they could easily opt out of it if they didn't want to. without their money being forced away from them with the threat of imprisonment the vast majority would not have the generosity, foresight and organization to willingly pool their money towards services like schools, roads, health care, law enforcement, infrastructure, city planning, electricity, water sanitation/pluming, waste removal, judicial system, emergency services, homeland defense, environmental conservation, etc.

we originate from animals whos dna is hardcoded for survival, but we've created a more complex world for ourselves and now survival that once required hunting, gathering and eventually farming, now mainly depends on generating wealth by performing tasks for other people for payment. there still exists places on the far reaches of this planet where people can return to primitive lifestyles away from all government intervention. being completely self sustaining would be a never ending full time job and you would not have the luxury of being supported by a society. you would need to grow and hunt food, prepare for winter or drought, take care of any medical issues you may encounter on your own, fabricate clothing for yourself, build and maintain your own home, generate your own electricity if possible, you would probably be cut off from access to phone and internet connection.

the main focus of your thread is that people need to change their attitudes to obtain utopia. human beings rarely achieve even minor positive changes in attitude, this goal requires not only a massive shift in attitude, but drastic lifestyle changes for billions of people as a collective, its really not as simplistic as you make it out to be. even with miracle technology like the internet human beings still desire ownership of material possessions, they are prone to greed. greedy individuals are more successful in generating personal wealth and using underhanded methods to climb the ranks in politics, this ensures unethical people have a lopsided amount of power in the world. successful businesses hire cunning teams of people to find creative ways to rip their consumer off by the highest extent the law will allow them to. unfortunately this is the way of the world, most individuals don't hold themselves personally accountable for any of their actions contributing to the sorry state their governments and societies are in. most just focus on their personal struggles and the ones who find ways to achieve a highly disproportionate amount of wealth usually credit themselves with being smarter or more blessed with better opportunities than the rest and acknowledge that they did something underhanded along the way.

the main problem is behavior of human beings. government and business are inventions of mankind, they are a reflection of the human race. even before humans were intellectually developed enough to invent government there was still widespread problems. humans would still enslave each other, they would still swindle and take what they wanted from one another by way of force. if all forms of government were erased we would have chaos, society would quickly break down to a inharmonious primitive level. its not that people dont want utopia or heaven or earth, they are unable to obtain it because we are imperfect beings.

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Lol.

We don't need government at all. Not one bit. You can fit the entire world's population (7 billion, allegedly) on a piece of land a little bigger than the size of Texas with a house and a backyard. Every single person. Do the math. So without government manufacturing false scarcity through unjust land ownership, land not in use would now be free and land already in use would become radically cheaper (i.e. practically free) because land would now be abundant...

Utilities would be reduced to practically nothing because those are clearly a monopoly enforced by government...

So with the cost of living reduced to practically nothing to survive, people would now be free to find work that suits them and live fulfilling lives rather than being forced into a job they hate just to make a living.

We don't need to work as much as we do to maintain the quality of life we have now. Not even close. We're being robbed. Wake up. Stop defending the enslavement of you and your peers.

We don't need public schools either. Like are you kidding? Really? Modern education is NOTHING more than brainwashing. That's it.

There's so much wrong with your post I don't even know where to start honestly.

You probably think the Earth is a ball.

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If you really want to get anywhere with this conversation let's be concise and address one point at a time. Don't overwhelm me. I have a life. I can debate any argument you throw at me on this topic as I've pondered it extensively but I want this to be a more natural, back and forth conversation. I'm not trying to write a novel every post. The essay was just to lay the groundwork for the convo. So pick your biggest issue with my argument and we'll go from there.

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1 minute ago, Goob said:

Lol.

We don't need government at all. Not one bit. You can fit the entire world's population (7 billion, allegedly) on a piece of land a little bigger than the size of Texas with a house and a backyard. Every single person. Do the math. So without government manufacturing false scarcity through unjust land ownership, land not in use would now be free and land already in use would become radically cheaper (i.e. practically free) because land would now be abundant...

Utilities would be reduced to practically nothing because those are clearly a monopoly enforced by government...

So with the cost of living reduced to practically nothing to survive, people would now be free to find work that suits them and live fulfilling lives rather than being forced into a job they hate just to make a living.

We don't need to work as much as we do to maintain the quality of life we have now. Not even close. We're being robbed. Wake up. Stop defending the enslavement of you and your peers.

We don't need public schools either. Like are you kidding? Really? Modern education is NOTHING more than brainwashing. That's it. You probably think the Earth is a ball.

theres lots of inexpensive unoccupied land on the planet, the difficult part is making it all habitable with all the accommodations a normal city provides.

yes government monopoly is bad and monopolies can easily happen the other way around from the electric company themselves. the power lines, poles, transformers, and power plants are property . there is not enough even land to go around for a dozen electric or water companies to erect their own infrastructures side by side in most developed areas the businesses are unwilling to share their equipment with competing companies. things could definitely be run more effectively to reduce costs but its not gonna go down to next to nothing like you think.

im not "defending enslavement" i dont think our government does a good job even. but if you take it away completely you open up a big potential for corrupt business to completely take over. they really have more power then government in alot of ways as it is.

like them or not society needs schools, most parents are not equipped to be teachers.

and yes youre correct, i do think the earth is a sphere. its pretty bizarre that people are so untrusting of what the "government's lies" they abandon common sense and insist the earth is flat and deny and evidence that it isnt.

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11 minutes ago, Goob said:

If you really want to get anywhere with this conversation let's be concise and address one point at a time. Don't overwhelm me. I have a life. I can debate any argument you throw at me on this topic as I've pondered it extensively but I want this to be a more natural, back and forth conversation. I'm not trying to write a novel every post. The essay was just to lay the groundwork for the convo. So pick your biggest issue with my argument and we'll go from there.

my wall of text was just the initial response to your wall of text. i wasn't intentionally invoking a drawn out debate format, and you dont need to feel obligated to respond to me if your not in the mood for it. i just want to provide some counter points to your plan, if you think about everything involved with completely getting rid of all government there is still major issues that need to be ironed out first.

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Just now, FLstrange said:

my wall of text was just the initial response to your wall of text. i wasn't intentionally invoking a drawn out debate format, and you dont need to feel obligated to respond to me if your not in the mood for it. i just want to provide some counter points to your plan, if you think about everything involved with completely getting rid of all government there is still major issues that need to be ironed out first.

I know there is and I've pretty much ironed them all out. Like I said, pick one, and we'll go from there. This isn't the first time I've debated this topic and it always goes the same way.

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10 minutes ago, FLstrange said:

theres lots of inexpensive unoccupied land on the planet, the difficult part is making it all habitable with all the accommodations a normal city provides.

yes government monopoly is bad and monopolies can easily happen the other way around from the electric company themselves. the power lines, poles, transformers, and power plants are property . there is not enough even land to go around for a dozen electric or water companies to erect their own infrastructures side by side in most developed areas the businesses are unwilling to share their equipment with competing companies. things could definitely be run more effectively to reduce costs but its not gonna go down to next to nothing like you think.

im not "defending enslavement" i dont think our government does a good job even. but if you take it away completely you open up a big potential for corrupt business to completely take over. they really have more power then government in alot of ways as it is.

like them or not society needs schools, most parents are not equipped to be teachers.

and yes youre correct, i do think the earth is a sphere. its pretty bizarre that people are so untrusting of what the "government's lies" they abandon common sense and insist the earth is flat and deny and evidence that it isnt.

There's no real evidence the Earth is a ball but we'll save that debate for another thread. It's okay, FL, you're not as far down the rabbit hole as me, but we'll get you there.

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47 minutes ago, Goob said:

I know there is and I've pretty much ironed them all out. Like I said, pick one, and we'll go from there. This isn't the first time I've debated this topic and it always goes the same way.

one main issue is that business will in complete control. nothing with regulate the quality of their products the biggest companies would immediately form conglomerate monopolies until only a small number of distinct corporations exist. it would get to the point where the only grocery store would be walmart every item in the stores is walmart brand, toxic ingredients can be added into foods if it saves money with no repercussions because no one can enforce quality control for food, you cant chose to boycott them unless you farm your own food but the land could be made  unideal for farming because companies like monsanto could go around poisoning the peoples soil with drones if youre a competing farm thats not under one of their contracts. or companies could place embargo on selling farm equipment and supplies to civilians. corporations like nestle could create bottling plants in areas susceptible to drought, over extract the natural reserves of fresh water of the area create a situation where people dont have access to clean water in there taps at home like flint michigan force people to pay $7 a bottle for any clean water, dump tonnes of salt in any sources of fresh water people discover. theres no real way to stop giant monopoly and anti consumer practices, if no one keeps the company in check. they can easily gain a market stranglehold where consumers having the option of voting with their money cant be done.

45 minutes ago, Goob said:

There's no real evidence the Earth is a ball but we'll save that debate for another thread. It's okay, FL, you're not as far down the rabbit hole as me, but we'll get you there.

ever been in a plane at high altitude? or a boat way out on the ocean? you can literally see the curvature of the earth on the horizon. and do the photos and videos taken from outer space not prove anything either? or do you believe that space is another elaborate hoax as well?

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56 minutes ago, FLstrange said:

one main issue is that business will in complete control.

You really need to learn how to be concise. Less is more. I’m addressing this one point which you based all your subsequent points on making them invalid because this is false. What makes you think corporations are going to be able to control you in a world without government? Each individual would be in control of their own destiny. Not “business”. That’s absurd. Corporations don’t put a gun to people’s heads and force them to buy their products. People do so voluntarily. Businesses are completely harmless without government. Give me ONE example of how they’re not (not 20) and I’ll explain how you’re wrong.

 You must be a socialist.

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The problem with going full on uptopia from anarcho-capitalism to marxism, they sound great in theory but it takes very little to screw it all up. 

I can’t say I back the construct of the state 100% but there are necessary evils to justify its existence to some degree.  These are better conversations to have in person than over the phone though  

Goob, are you hai2u2?

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21 minutes ago, SteveLaClair said:

The problem with going full on uptopia from anarcho-capitalism to marxism, they sound great in theory but it takes very little to screw it all up. 

I can’t say I back the construct of the state 100% but there are necessary evils to justify its existence to some degree.  These are better conversations to have in person than over the phone though  

Goob, are you hai2u2?

Definitely disagree that government can be justified in anyway whatsoever and would love to hear you try but I definitely do agree these convos are indeed better in person. That’s why I’d like to keep the posts short if we are going to discuss this here.

No, I’m not Hai. I’m flattered you asked though.

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8 hours ago, Goob said:

You really need to learn how to be concise. Less is more

if i hand-feed you them one sentence at a time it only makes everything take longer to communicate. im not interested in having this discussion ten words at a time.

8 hours ago, Goob said:

What makes you think corporations are going to be able to control you in a world without government?

you asked for one issue. my response is that businesses consolidate themselves in to massive unstoppable all powerful entities when given permission to make full blown monopolies, i even stuck to that single topic like you asked. there is multiple ways they can enact a stranglehold of control over the population if this is allowed. their power over the way people live rapidly snowballs, and they have much more control over any resource than the individual, and can use tactics to withhold basic necessities like food and water from people unless its being bought directly from them. they can make it a world that anyone who is deemed a competitor is sabotaged.

8 hours ago, Goob said:

Each individual would be in control of their own destiny. Not “business”. That’s absurd

its really not absurd at all. businesses want all they can possibly get their hands on. they work on machine like logic, they are not your friend. give them legal permission and they would take everything and prevent all forms of competition.

8 hours ago, Goob said:

Corporations don’t put a gun to people’s heads and force them to buy their products. People do so voluntarily. Businesses are completely harmless without government.

they easily could if we just allowed them to. give them complete control and you now have a bigger enemy to our populous than government. they are far from harmless.

 

7 hours ago, SteveLaClair said:

The problem with going full on uptopia from anarcho-capitalism to marxism, they sound great in theory but it takes very little to screw it all up. 

I can’t say I back the construct of the state 100% but there are necessary evils to justify its existence to some degree.

i agree with this exactly. a ancap utopian world sounds wonderful, but achieving the delicate balance one would require is unrealistic. all corporations have to do is be as greedy as they already have proven themselves to be and the idea stops working.

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3 hours ago, FLstrange said:

if i hand-feed you them one sentence at a time it only makes everything take longer to communicate. im not interested in having this discussion ten words at a time.

you asked for one issue. my response is that businesses consolidate themselves in to massive unstoppable all powerful entities when given permission to make full blown monopolies, i even stuck to that single topic like you asked. there is multiple ways they can enact a stranglehold of control over the population if this is allowed. their power over the way people live rapidly snowballs, and they have much more control over any resource than the individual, and can use tactics to withhold basic necessities like food and water from people unless its being bought directly from them. they can make it a world that anyone who is deemed a competitor is sabotaged.

its really not absurd at all. businesses want all they can possibly get their hands on. they work on machine like logic, they are not your friend. give them legal permission and they would take everything and prevent all forms of competition.

they easily could if we just allowed them to. give them complete control and you now have a bigger enemy to our populous than government. they are far from harmless.

 

i agree with this exactly. a ancap utopian world sounds wonderful, but achieving the delicate balance one would require is unrealistic. all corporations have to do is be as greedy as they already have proven themselves to be and the idea stops working.

Give me ONE example of how a business can stop YOU, personally, from doing anything in a world without government. A business has no control over an individual. You sound like a broke hater. “Wahhhh, businesses are mean, government is necessary to keep them in check!” Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. A business never stole from me, kidnapped me or locked me in a fucking cage. GOVERNMENT is mean, and there’s NO way to keep it in check.

If you’re a free human being, what power does business have over you personally? None. You’re free to do whatever you want. Hunt and gather your own food, collect water, build a house anywhere pretty much since land is free and abundant. It would be heaven on Earth. The reason this is so hard for you guys to imagine is because you’re so indoctrinated you can’t imagine a world without the system to such a degree you think it’s impossible when that’s the furthest thing from the truth.

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You think anarchy = chaos. The truth is government = chaos, anarchy = harmony. That’s a fact.

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This is all just for fun though. I have no illusions things will ever get better. I’ve given up hope. People deserve what they get. They’re idiots, mindless automatons and they don’t even know it, so fuck ‘em.

That’s why I’m going off the grid. I realized the only true path to freedom is personal development. Everything else is a waste of time

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FL, we should do a podcast! Talking would be way more efficient than typing.

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1 hour ago, Goob said:

Give me ONE example of how a business can stop YOU, personally, from doing anything in a world without government. A business has no control over an individual. You sound like a broke hater. “Wahhhh, businesses are mean, government is necessary to keep them in check!” Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. A business never stole from me, kidnapped me or locked me in a fucking cage. GOVERNMENT is mean, and there’s NO way to keep it in check.

If you’re a free human being, what power does business have over you personally? None. You’re free to do whatever you want. Hunt and gather your own food, collect water, build a house anywhere pretty much since land is free and abundant. It would be heaven on Earth. The reason this is so hard for you guys to imagine is because you’re so indoctrinated you can’t imagine a world without the system to such a degree you think it’s impossible when that’s the furthest thing from the truth.

with no law stopping them, would big industry just respect the environment out of the kindness of their hearts? or would they go from one forest to the next chopping everything down for the valuable resources that they can profit from? how will people living in the deforested area be able to hunt and gather enough resources to survive if someone has already horded them all? stores will still be there, but nothing is affordable because nothing would prevent price gouging. if a corporation decides to make the location where a person lives off the grid their next project site, who would stop them from leveling the persons home? he could be a firearm owner sure, but they have the capital to purchase more advanced weapons and hire large trained teams to operate them. the only reason a business never stole from you, kidnapped you or locked you in a cage is because theyre not allowed to. sweatshops exist and many of them are borderline slave labor. if no law existed they could breed laborers like cattle, never permit them to leave the work facility or have knowledge of the outside world. no one would have the means to put a stop to it if the largest military are company owned by corporations for their own security detail.

 

31 minutes ago, Goob said:

FL, we should do a podcast! Talking would be way more efficient than typing.

thats a fun idea. im sure the result would be entertaining but i think ill pass on your invitation.

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36 minutes ago, FLstrange said:

with no law stopping them, would big industry just respect the environment out of the kindness of their hearts? or would they go from one forest to the next chopping everything down for the valuable resources that they can profit from? how will people living in the deforested area be able to hunt and gather enough resources to survive if someone has already horded them all? stores will still be there, but nothing is affordable because nothing would prevent price gouging. if a corporation decides to make the location where a person lives off the grid their next project site, who would stop them from leveling the persons home? he could be a firearm owner sure, but they have the capital to purchase more advanced weapons and hire large trained teams to operate them. the only reason a business never stole from you, kidnapped you or locked you in a cage is because theyre not allowed to. sweatshops exist and many of them are borderline slave labor. if no law existed they could breed laborers like cattle, never permit them to leave the work facility or have knowledge of the outside world. no one would have the means to put a stop to it if the largest military are company owned by corporations for their own security detail..

Gee, sounds just like what we have now already as the result of government! Weird... The only reason businesses have an insatiable thirst for profit is due to the manufactured scarcity created by government. A world without it is abundant, which combined with competition keeps prices of goods and services down immensely. The only people who benefit from government are a few, pitting us all against each other. Lives of the overwhelming majority would greatly improve without it. That’s a cold, hard fact.

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4 minutes ago, Goob said:

Gee, sounds just like what we have now already as the result of government! Weird... The only reason businesses have an insatiable thirst for profit is due to the manufactured scarcity created by government. A world without government is abundant, which combined with competition keeps prices of goods and services down immensely. The only people who benefit from government are a few, pitting us all against each other. Lives of the overwhelming majority would greatly improve without it. That’s a cold, hard fact.

if government disappeared corporate greed would still exist. it would no go away just because the you takeaway the sanctions on them. removing things like human rights laws only gives the factories a free pass to start using actual full blown slave labor.

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No, it gives individuals a free pass to burn slave labor factories and other immoral businesses to the fucking ground without government stopping them. Businesses that violate the NAP will be retaliated against. Not that people who created a world without government would even support such businesses allowing them to gain such power in the first place because people in the world I’m talking about actually have a brain and use it to think for themselves. You should try it.

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17 minutes ago, Goob said:

No, it gives citizens the right to burn slave labor factories and other immoral businesses to the fucking ground without government stopping them. Not that people who created a world without government would even support such businesses allowing them to gain such power in the first place because people in the world I’m talking about actually have a brain and use it to think for themselves. You should try it.

what if these factories have a heavy amount of security in place to thwart any attack attempts? they could construct them as military underground bunkers with fully armed guards, reinforced walls, heavy locked doors, guns on motion sensors, rooms that dispense gas, etc. the tech is there and they would have the money to insure the facilities they own stay defended from any opposition. if corporations own a disproportionate amount of the worlds wealth and resources (which they currently do, its not something they need to gain, its already established) they would have no issue defending against an attack from local activists.

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You’re really not getting this. Government benefits a few. Life would be better for literally EVERYONE without it. Even the people who own all the evil corporations as they are not the people who benefit from government. They are slaves just as much as we are. They simply don’t know it just like everyone else. In a world without government we would all be free and it would be apparent finally that we were slaves before. Thus the desire to enslave others would be gone. If you were rich and free, you would not cry because your neighbor, equally free, was richer. Liberty will ultimately make all men rich, but it will not make all men equally rich. Authority may (and may not) make all men equally rich in their pocket but it certainly make them equally poor in all that makes life worth living. 

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3 minutes ago, Goob said:

You’re really not getting this. Government benefits a few. Life would be better for literally EVERYONE without it. Even the people who own all the evil corporations as they are not the people who benefit from government. They are slaves just as much as we are. They simply don’t know it. In a world without government we would all be free and it would be apparent finally that we were slaves before. Thus the desire to enslave others would be gone. If you were rich and free, you would not cry because your neighbor, equally free, was richer. Liberty will ultimately make all men rich, but it will not make all men equally rich. Authority may (and may not) make all men equally rich in their pocket but it certainly make them equally poor in all that makes life worth living. 

greed would not disappear if you remove all government. youre unrealistically expecting a perfect dreamworld where everyone is content with what they have and dont desire more. slavery has existed in old ages before the invention of government.

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It’s not that people wouldn’t desire things. It’s that everything would be abundant. Thus, everyone would be able to fulfill their desires, rather than just a few.

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